General purpose I/O board

If you have ideas for a new board, for new features for existing boards, or want to suggest new applications for the I/O Extender, this is the place to post.

General purpose I/O board

Postby mk e » Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:42 pm

Jean,
FreeScale has come out with a nice little (4.7" x 4.3") $99 5634 development board
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/sit ... K-MPC5634M

5-6 of the o5e (Open5xxxECU) guys now have one for testing code on and it sure would be nice to have an I/O board to connect it to.

I think this path now makes o5e about the cheapest ECU possible, and our code (in test ONLY!!!) for the 5634 supports up to 6 spark and 12 fuel (more or re-tasking is easy but we kept it simple for now) so it's also more capable than anything in the MS line-up

I know you are mostly in the MS world, but I'm wondering if this isn't maybe a place our paths might cross (and you know it's my goal to suck you into o5e at some point :) )?



Slightly off-topic, I'm working on an even cheaper option - I'm pretty sure a GM E78 ecu which is 8 fuel, 8 spark and lots of other stuff is $150 brand new on ebay and uses a 5566, 132Mhz processor so it should be possible to get o5e code to run on it....once I get it opened up and figure-out what's attached to what. The odwn side here is I can't imaging the inputs stuff being very understanding about non-GM sensors, but it's only $150 so.......
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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby jbelanger » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:39 pm

Yeah, I have seen that board and it is indeed a nice little board at a very good price (but that's not surprising from Freescale).

What kind of I/O board were you thinking about? Something to read the analog inputs, digital input (if you have some), for ignition and injection outputs and other digital/PWM outputs? I might be interested but that would depend on the complexity and the number of people interested in such a board.

Jean
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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby mk e » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:17 pm

I'm thinking exactly what you describe. Something with enough stuff to be a simple ECU, hopefully something that might have applications to the MS crowd too if possible?

Jared laid the 5634 over the 5554 board and it looks like the pair together would fit in the cinch LE case so maybe the 48 or 60 pin header?

I think price is the issue and you'll have a much better idea or that than me. The FreeScale ECU Demo board is coming and I think will be $500....which is a fair price but if $100-$200 board could be had to turn the $99 demo board into a and ECU that might be a nice way to easy into the 5xxx world.

Is something like this possible do you think?
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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby jbelanger » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:41 pm

It is possible to design a board that would make the dev board into an ECU but fitting that in Cinch enclosure isn't going to be easy. There is very little height in the LE and SE enclosures so having a 2 board stack is not the most practical solution.

It also depends if you want logic level coil outputs and high impedance injector drivers or you need IGBTs and low-impedance injector drivers. In the latter case, you need heat sinks which means a smaller board and more constraints on layout and routing.

Jean
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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby mk e » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:49 pm

I think something that comes out functional, cheap, neat, compact in that order is good. Only functional and cheap are required for a good testing solution but the further down the list you can get the better accepted it will be as a serious ECU solution.


So my question to you is, how would you do it?'
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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby jbelanger » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:59 pm

The first thing I would need is an exhaustive list of I/Os and circuits and how they map to the dev board headers. That would give the minimum number of pins required for the connector and an approximate size for the board which would then establish which enclosure could be used. I like the Cinch enclosure for it's features but it is quite constraining (not to mention that it's not very user-friendly to open and close).

Jean
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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby mk e » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:14 pm

jbelanger wrote:The first thing I would need is an exhaustive list of I/Os and circuits and how they map to the dev board headers.
......
Jean




I would say something like

16 or 20 1A low side drivers would be ideal but 12 (4 fuel/4 spark/4optional) would be enough. Use external ignitors to make the drives as flexible as possible

10-12 AN inputs would be ideal, 4-6 are required

2 VR/hall (could be 2 VR & 2 hall and select with pins choice) for crank/cam

I have a habit of asking for too much though so I guess what I'm asking you is what you thing the I/O looks like?
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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby jbelanger » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:39 pm

I wouldn't use a low side driver for a logic level ignition output. I'd use either a buffer/driver or a push/pull driver. And I would use a protected FET for injection such as the VND5N07.

But besides that, it looks reasonable in the minimum configuration and even the maximum numbers wouldn't be too bad. And it seems it would fit a 48-pin connector. What comm interface would use: RS232, USB, CAN? The connectors on the dev board would not be of any use if using a Cinch case.

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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby mk e » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:38 pm

jbelanger wrote:I wouldn't use a low side driver for a logic level ignition output. I'd use either a buffer/driver or a push/pull driver. And I would use a protected FET for injection such as the VND5N07.


What ever you think is best. I only suggested the low side driver thinking any unused for spark could be used for fuel or an optional PWM/digi out but that's not critical.


But besides that, it looks reasonable in the minimum configuration and even the maximum numbers wouldn't be too bad. And it seems it would fit a 48-pin connector. What comm interface would use: RS232, USB, CAN? The connectors on the dev board would not be of any use if using a Cinch case.

Jean


Right now the other o5e stuff is using RS232 TTL level out of the case and a TTL to USB adapter cable...the USB to serial on the freescale board doesn't work real well with the tuner I'm told. Also right now the FW is being flash through the jtag or the onboard USB so whatever case is used there must be a way to open it plus it's semi-development HW so it stands to reason people will want in to the case. I have not tried snapping and then opening my cinch case yet but I think I read somewhere there is a tool to open them......but maybe your first thought the the cinch case was not the best choice was right.
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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby mk e » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:38 am

I got my 5634 board yesterday....looking at it it sure looks like if the I/O board has the connectors on the bottom then it could just plug onto the 5634 board and secure with the 4 corner screws.

If the case was a generic Alum case, the end plate could be machined so the the 5634 connectors and whatever header is on the I/O board are accessible. That would be a little more "development" than a cinch case, but very practical.

Just thoughts though, this might not make sense.
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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby jbelanger » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:36 pm

A Generic aluminium case is probably the best solution but that means machining the endplate(s) for the 5634 board connectors and the I/O board connector(s).

And it might be better from a packaging point of view to have the boards facing each other (I/O board on the bottom with the 5634 board upside down on top) rather than having the I/O board with connectors on the bottom to plug to the 5634 board; that might reduce the height and allow using a case that's not excessively tall. Of course, you have to check for interference between the components on each board but that may not be an issue.

Or it may just be better to have the I/O board on top with the components on top and the connectors on the bottom including the external connector(s).

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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby mk e » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:04 pm

jbelanger wrote:A Generic aluminium case is probably the best solution but that means machining the endplate(s) for the 5634 board connectors and the I/O board connector(s).

Jean


I can machine up anything needed end plate wise, that's no problem.

No question face to case would be more compact if ti can be made to work component clearance wise. When Lana gets home so I can ask where the heck the camera is I'll post a few piece of the board from different angles so you'll have a better idea what we're dealing with.
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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby jbelanger » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:19 pm

Do you have a mapping of the CPU pins to each fonction, i.e., which pins are used for ignition, injection, other outputs and inputs?

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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby mk e » Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:16 pm

jbelanger wrote:Do you have a mapping of the CPU pins to each fonction, i.e., which pins are used for ignition, injection, other outputs and inputs?

Jean


I'm still working on it a bit, but here is what the code currently is set up to:
http://code.google.com/p/open5xxxecu/do ... s&can=2&q=

On the top of the 5634 board there are at least 6 connectors that need to be grabbed:
eTPU 0-15
eTPU 16-31
eMIOS
eQADC1 0-17
eQADC 18-39
power and ground
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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby mk e » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:07 pm

Here's some pics of the board, let me know is other angles would help.....I could send you the whole board too.

The red/yellow jumpers are on eTPU 0/1 & 30/31 - we have toothgen ( generate a crank and cam signal) running on 30/31 then jumper it in to 0/1 as the crank/cam input for testing.
Attachments
2012-01-14 5634 003 small.JPG
2012-01-14 5634 003 small.JPG (159.14 KiB) Viewed 14911 times
2012-01-14 5634 002 small.JPG
2012-01-14 5634 002 small.JPG (136.33 KiB) Viewed 14911 times
2012-01-14 5634 001 samll.JPG
2012-01-14 5634 001 samll.JPG (191.17 KiB) Viewed 14911 times
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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby jbelanger » Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:09 am

I'll have to think about it a bit more before I go any further with this.

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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby kb1gtt » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:41 am

Hello JBPerf and Mark,

About the 2 layer stacked approach, I think it can physically fit, and I have access to Solidworks / 5634 board, so I can check clearance issues with 3D before a first build. I would also be happy to help develop an IO board for this 5634 board. However as Mark has noted, time is an issue for me, and I'm trying to keep my focus on the first spin of o5e. Despite the time and priority issues, 3D work would lend it's self well to the 10 minute work windows I some times get.

I seem to recall JBPerf has something that uses a different easier to use Cinch enclosure. I wonder if the 5634 board can fit in that enclosure.

As for interested persons, I would likely be interested, and I don't see much need for more than 6 cyls, as rally uses 4cyl and aren't limited by HP but by the curvature of the earth. It's not the size of your cyl, but how you use it.
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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby mk e » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:27 am

jbelanger wrote:I'll have to think about it a bit more before I go any further with this.

Jean


Fair enough. One thing we talked a bit about on the o5e site was that maybe the right thing is a completely generic I/O board which is what I was thinking in my first post here.....so connecting any board requires a pigtail, but any processor board can be connected.

Not as neat as a packed ecu, but a universal development tool which has value too.
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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby mk e » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:12 pm

I noticed the other day that a $99 5634 demo board with a $90 MS3Xpaner board is very close to an ecu, thought in a $45 dual VR board or a second MS3X board and it probably is an ecu. I think I'm going to try this and see if I can get it to work. The o5e firmware is about a week out at this point it looks like and I have a buddies ferrari 308 with ITBs lined up as the test mule...why start simple or plain :)

I think we are getting very close to bring able to re-flash the new GM E78 ecu (uses a 5566) with the o5e code and these are 8 spark, 8 fuel, 4-8 (we aren't quite sure what we're looking at) additional optional outs for under $200 brand new

....but I'd still love to see a single board that had everything :)
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Re: General purpose I/O board

Postby jbelanger » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:40 am

Mark,

There is no way I can compete with a $150 GM ECU (from what I've seen on Ebay following the link from your forum). So if your code can run on this, that will be the most economical solution. Even the 5634 demo board + MS3X combo is going to be difficult to beat. And then there's the upcoming Freescale $500 ECU based on the 5634 which is also cheaper than what I could do myself for the exact same thing (I don't know if this one will be in limited supply or not or if their price will change later).

It's not just a question of the base price of the PCB, components, connector and case. I can't spend the development time and the cost of building one (or more) prototype(s) without planning on getting back something for it. And I can't plan on volume for this. Freescale is basically selling at cost (and probably has a certain volume) and GM definitely has the volume.

So I may still do something but it will have to fit my needs for other projects for it to make sense.

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