Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standards

If you have ideas for a new board, for new features for existing boards, or want to suggest new applications for the I/O Extender, this is the place to post.

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standards

Postby twisted transistor » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:30 pm

how is the status of this I will be doing some work on 3 cars and need something like this verry soon
twisted transistor
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:31 am

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standards

Postby tmsmini » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:19 pm

Jean:
Any updated thoughts on this project/product?

Terry
tmsmini
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:02 pm

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standards

Postby jbelanger » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:16 pm

Nothing really concrete.

However, I have been thinking about ways to optimize the use of the available connector pins and allow the flexibility of different I/O types such as logic level and non-logic level ignition coils, VR and Hall sensors, low-Z and high-Z injectors, idle stepper motor, 2-wire and 3-wire valves. And since the Cinch enclosure can't be easily opened and closed by the user, this configuration would all be done in software by controlling dedicated hardware on the board.

That would mean a single hardware build that would have pins that could accept different types of hardware and would require a software configuration instead of jumpers or DIP switches on the board. And if the hardware changes at some point, it would simply be a question of running a configuration application on the PC. Of course that would be in a part of the CPU memory that would not be affected by firmware updates.

By the way, this would be controlled by the mini I/O Extender on the board which means this would no longer be an option but a part of the main board.

Jean
Image
jbelanger
 
Posts: 3633
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:24 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standards

Postby tpsretard » Mon May 17, 2010 2:29 pm

I like the way you are thinking
tpsretard
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:52 am

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standar

Postby 24c » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:31 pm

Jean, are you thinking of taking this any further, what's the minimum order quantity you need to facilitate this?
24c
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:28 am
Location: Chorley, Lancashire, UK

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standar

Postby jbelanger » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:10 pm

I do want to take that further but there are a couple of aspects that need to be solved. First, if I want to use the Cinch box, which is a very attractive solution, there's the issue of configuring the different I/Os. The box is not designed to be easily opened and closed so if the I/Os can be configured through jumpers and/or DIP switches, then I either pre-configure each box for the user-specified setup or I leave it to the user and provide the board outside the box but need to see how this can be assembled later on by the user.

And if I do as I mention in my previous post (from a year ago!) then I need to provide the support to do all the configuration through software. That means doing the firmware and software for it but also finding and testing the hardware needed for the task. This might not be that easy since it could involve parts that need to withstand either high voltage or high current or both. And I also need to have some failsafe so that if something is not configured correctly, it doesn't burn everything.

However, if someone tells me that they want to order 25 boxes with the same configuration or some minor variations then it could be worth it to do a run specifically for that. A smaller number might also be possible but 25 is a good number when it comes time to order Microsquirt modules so that could have a significant impact on price.

Jean
Image
jbelanger
 
Posts: 3633
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:24 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standar

Postby jbelanger » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:34 am

I've been thinking about it and I can probably do a small run of 6 or 7 units at a reasonable cost. I will have a look at what type of configuration could be done quickly and easily while still being flexible and as complete as possible. If you have something that would have to be there let me know. I'll post as soon as I have some initial setup to propose.

Jean
Image
jbelanger
 
Posts: 3633
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:24 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standar

Postby jbelanger » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:28 pm

After a quick look at what can be done and keeping in mind that I wanted to fit it in the smaller SE enclosure with the maximum 48 pins, this is what I have:
  • 4 pins for high Z injector drivers
  • 4 pins for logic coil drivers
  • 4 pins for 2 differential VR inputs (VR+ and VR-) which can be configured as opto/Hall inputs with either a 5V or 12V pull up
  • 4 pins 2 RS-232 serial ports (Microsquirt module and mini IOx)
  • 2 pins for the CAN bus
  • 2 pins for main power supply: 12V and ground
  • 1 pin MAT
  • 1 pin CLT
  • 1 pin TPS
  • 2 pins for 2 O2 sensors
  • 1 pin Vref
  • 2 pins for idle control: either 3-wire valve or 2-wire valve plus one spare output
  • 1 pin fuel pump
  • 2 pins MAP+Baro
  • 1 pin bootload
  • 1 pin Tach output
  • 1 pin table switching
  • 1 pin launch control
  • 1 pin boost control
  • 3 pins NOS (1 input + 2 outputs)
  • 4 pins programmable outputs
  • 2 pin analog inputs
  • 3 pins ground: 1 sensor ground + 2 high current grounds

In addition to this, there would be an on-board micro-SD card and a real time clock for logging purposes (once I finish this part of the code...). The on-board mini IOx would take care of the mininal hardware configuration needed for the tach inputs (enable the pull ups) and also take care of some of the aforementioned I/Os as well as logging.

The inputs would be configured to use the Microsquirt module circuit directly except for the tach inputs which would use a MAX9926 interface and the few optional inputs which would use an active low input circuit. The outputs would use the standard Microsquirt module circuits except for the ignition outputs which would use the pushpull circuit discussed recently on the MS3 forum (to allow the use of most, if not all, "logic level" COPs) and optional outputs which would use an appropriate driver for the feature. The mini IOx serial port could be used for reading the digital data from an LC1 chain.

So let me know if I have missed anything with that approach. I know that not all OEM setups can be directly used and that some people will need to add external coil drivers but I think it's still an attractive setup for anyone wanting to do a full sequential setup on an engine with up to 4 cylinders or semi-sequential for 6 and 8 cylinder engines. And it would not require a lot of new hardware or software. And as mentioned, it would make sense for me to do such a board and I'd be able to offer it at a reasonable cost if people were to commit for 6 or 7 units.

Jean
Image
jbelanger
 
Posts: 3633
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:24 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standar

Postby 24c » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:22 pm

Jean, I'd be happy to try one of these, so if it helps get the ball rolling, put me down for one please.

PS I can PayPal upfront if it helps.
24c
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:28 am
Location: Chorley, Lancashire, UK

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standar

Postby jbelanger » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:49 pm

I'll do some preliminary work on this before I start taking payments. I'll also need to get others to show some interest.

I've got pretty much all the MS2/Extra features covered but if there's anything that you think should be done with the few extra I/Os other than what I have here, let me know.

Jean
Image
jbelanger
 
Posts: 3633
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:24 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standar

Postby dontz125 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:00 pm

Is there any way of splitting this into 2 units, and using 2x Cinch Mini-ME boxes? They appear to need no tooling to close, and looking at the drawings the latches are far simpler. They are capable of mounting 48 pin headers, allowing CAN chat between the devices.
dontz125
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:27 pm

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standar

Postby 24c » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:32 pm

jbelanger wrote:... but if there's anything that you think should be done with the few extra I/Os other than what I have here, let me know...


There are a couple for motorcycles that I can think of, being that the case is "ruggedized" it lends itself to this, power valve or exhaust valve actuation, a quick shifter and dontz125s tilt kill input. :)
24c
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:28 am
Location: Chorley, Lancashire, UK

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standar

Postby jbelanger » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:33 pm

I just had a look and the Microsquirt module does not fit inside the Mini-ME box. Moreover, it doesn't seem to be available anywhere while the SE is easily available at Mouser. But if/when it does become available, it might be an interesting box for some sort of IOx variant.

Jean
Image
jbelanger
 
Posts: 3633
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:24 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standar

Postby jbelanger » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:36 pm

24c wrote:
jbelanger wrote:... but if there's anything that you think should be done with the few extra I/Os other than what I have here, let me know...


There are a couple for motorcycles that I can think of, being that the case is "ruggedized" it lends itself to this, power valve or exhaust valve actuation, a quick shifter and dontz125s tilt kill input. :)

And what type of I/Os would these require exactly? The additional I/Os already specified could likely be used. The issue would remain to have the code for it but that's not impossible.

Jean
Image
jbelanger
 
Posts: 3633
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:24 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standar

Postby dontz125 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:01 am

PV control is basically an H-bridge with a TPS-equivalent; drive the motor open or shut to chase the desired STPS value in a table vs RPM (and possibly engine load / TPS).

I don't know if a time-delay can be added to the tip-over system without some code-bashing; my thought is a 555 tripped by the tip-over switch that breaks the FP relay circuit.

Quick-shift is a variant of the flat-shift. I saw a discussion awhile back with people declaiming that the current flat-shift technique of retarding the spark didn't work for bikes, and that what was needed was ignition kill for some brief time. Not sure what the difference is between ignition kill and 120 deg of retard, but that's just me.
dontz125
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:27 pm

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standar

Postby dontz125 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:22 am

jbelanger wrote:I just had a look and the Microsquirt module does not fit inside the Mini-ME box. Moreover, it doesn't seem to be available anywhere while the SE is easily available at Mouser. But if/when it does become available, it might be an interesting box for some sort of IOx variant.


I'm looking at the Mini-ME drawings right now, and it JUST doesn't fit. Any chance of skimming off 0.1" at the bottom, and adding a 0.12 x 0.36" notch to the uSM? :roll:

Allied Electronics has it in their catalogue, but none in stock yet.
dontz125
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:27 pm

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standar

Postby jbelanger » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:02 am

dontz125 wrote:I'm looking at the Mini-ME drawings right now, and it JUST doesn't fit. Any chance of skimming off 0.1" at the bottom, and adding a 0.12 x 0.36" notch to the uSM? :roll:

Yeah, that's pretty much what I saw and unfortunately, _just_ doesn't fit still does not fit. I wish I could simply do my own complete board which would get rid of a bunch of useless components and be a hell of a lot cheaper. And it could fit in a nice tiny enclosure.

dontz125 wrote:Allied Electronics has it in their catalogue, but none in stock yet.

That's funny that it did not turn up on my search. I have doubts about it becoming easily available soon but I'll keep an eye out. I also haven't bought anything from Allied Electronics so I don't know how their service to Canada is.

Jean
Image
jbelanger
 
Posts: 3633
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:24 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standar

Postby 24c » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:15 pm

jbelanger wrote:... I wish I could simply do my own complete board which would get rid of a bunch of useless components and be a hell of a lot cheaper. And it could fit in a nice tiny enclosure...


Have you had any info from Bruce or Al about the MicroSquirt Version 3. I know it uses an 35 pin Ampseal, but the board looks like it is smaller than the Module board.
24c
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:28 am
Location: Chorley, Lancashire, UK

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standar

Postby jbelanger » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:01 pm

The only information I have is that there won't be a module based on this new Microsquirt (from the answer to my post on the Microsquirt module).

And since I'm not interested in the Ampseal connector nor the amount of place it takes on the board and also due to serious limitations with the Microsquirt I/Os (which is pretty much corrected with the module), it means I'm stuck with the current module. And I don't think they would sell a board-only version of the new Microsquirt so it's also not an option for a full featured MS2/Extra based setup.

Jean
Image
jbelanger
 
Posts: 3633
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:24 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Ruggedizing Case/Hardware to High End Commercial Standar

Postby tmsmini » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:12 pm

Jean:
I would be interested in one as well. I still have not assembled the MS with the components I purchased from you last November, but I have two engines. One will go in a car and the other used for development and testing, so eventually I will need to boxes.
Terry
tmsmini
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:02 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Wish List & Requests

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest