Dual VR V2.1

http://jbperf.com/dual_VR/index.html

Re: Dual VR V2.1

Postby downside190 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:24 am

Hi

I've asked this over on the MS Extra forums but thought I would ask here as well. As I use the v2.2 extra board which requires using the tach wire connect to the VR sensor how does this affect wiring up a rev/tach gauge?

Can I connect the normal gauge wire to the tach signal wire and run it fine or will that affect the VR sensor readings?
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Re: Dual VR V2.1

Postby jbelanger » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:28 pm

downside190 wrote:Can I connect the normal gauge wire to the tach signal wire and run it fine or will that affect the VR sensor readings?

That depends on your gauge and on your sensor. So the only way to know for certain is to try and see.

Jean
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Re: Dual VR V2.1

Postby chris3_76 » Tue May 12, 2015 10:17 am

I wonder when will this item be available again. I hope things are better now with you Jean.
Thanks.
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Re: Dual VR V2.1

Postby jbelanger » Tue May 12, 2015 10:43 am

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Re: Dual VR V2.1

Postby chris3_76 » Thu May 14, 2015 7:58 am

Thanks jean!!
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Re: Dual VR V2.1

Postby bigrobintx » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:16 pm

I was on the buy page and it says this board is the best way to get answers. I haen't seen an answer to my question so I'll post here.

I've been researching how I can improve the circuit in my AEM v1 ECU that I have on a 1993 Toyota MR2 turbo. There is noise on the cam signal coming from the crank sensor and from the other cam sensor that isn't used. I believe the LM2901 chip that is on board the AEM v1 isn't really set up to handle the noise and variable signal strength. The programming on the ECU tries to, but it's antique by todays standards and since you can't use to triggers for sync like toyota did, it's prone to losing sync and cutting off the fuel and spark.

I came across the Maxim 992x chips, and felt the 9927 is the way to go since it has the ability to control the gain and the automatic adjustment of hysteresis that goes on on the chip is supposed to be real good. From what I can tell you are using the 9924 chip on the dual VR board, is that correct? What you're selling is a pretty good deal. I could build myself, but, it doesn't really make sense at your price point. I saw another user with a similar nippondenso distributor wanting to use it, but I was curious as to people's individual experience cleaning up noisy inputs with this setup. Any info would be great and how fast could I get one shipped out to Houston, TX 77062?

Thanks!

Rob
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Re: Dual VR V2.1

Postby Yury » Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:17 am

Most people think that there is only two types of speed sensors - Hall and VR, but there is third type that used pretty often Magnetoresistive - I have this on my car. http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/wheel-s ... ignal-use/ this article say - "The sensor produces a square wave signal with a high signal of 1.93 Volts, and a low signal of 0.64 Volts. The high signal must cross 1.29 Volts and the low signal must cross 0.97 Volts to low. The main advantage is that the amplitude of the signal does not change."

Will your board work with such signal?
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Re: Dual VR V2.1

Postby jbelanger » Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:46 pm

bigrobintx wrote:I was on the buy page and it says this board is the best way to get answers. I haen't seen an answer to my question so I'll post here.

I've been researching how I can improve the circuit in my AEM v1 ECU that I have on a 1993 Toyota MR2 turbo. There is noise on the cam signal coming from the crank sensor and from the other cam sensor that isn't used. I believe the LM2901 chip that is on board the AEM v1 isn't really set up to handle the noise and variable signal strength. The programming on the ECU tries to, but it's antique by todays standards and since you can't use to triggers for sync like toyota did, it's prone to losing sync and cutting off the fuel and spark.

I came across the Maxim 992x chips, and felt the 9927 is the way to go since it has the ability to control the gain and the automatic adjustment of hysteresis that goes on on the chip is supposed to be real good. From what I can tell you are using the 9924 chip on the dual VR board, is that correct? What you're selling is a pretty good deal. I could build myself, but, it doesn't really make sense at your price point. I saw another user with a similar nippondenso distributor wanting to use it, but I was curious as to people's individual experience cleaning up noisy inputs with this setup. Any info would be great and how fast could I get one shipped out to Houston, TX 77062?

Thanks!

Rob

Rob,

I'm using the MAX9926 (dual conditioner compared to the single on the 9924) and it is possible that using it could help in handling the noise. But that depends on the noise type and source. Also, some distributor setups are problematic because they share a common ground as the return signal for the sensor instead of having 2 independent wires for each VR sensor. Since the MAX9926 uses differential inputs, it does help with dealing with noise. Using a common ground removes that advantage and also can introduce cross-talk between the 2 signals.

So I can't guarantee that the board would help you. Others have made it work but I never get much, if any, details about successful installations and rarely enough on unsuccessful ones to draw conclusions.

If you use the buy button on the site, the board is shipped through regular mail in a bubble envelop. This is shipped from Canada and it usually takes 1-2 weeks to the US but it could be less or it could be more depending on USPS and customs. It is possible to use express post but this is a lot more expensive; PM me for details.

Jean
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Re: Dual VR V2.1

Postby jbelanger » Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:48 pm

Yury wrote:Most people think that there is only two types of speed sensors - Hall and VR, but there is third type that used pretty often Magnetoresistive - I have this on my car. http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/wheel-s ... ignal-use/ this article say - "The sensor produces a square wave signal with a high signal of 1.93 Volts, and a low signal of 0.64 Volts. The high signal must cross 1.29 Volts and the low signal must cross 0.97 Volts to low. The main advantage is that the amplitude of the signal does not change."

Will your board work with such signal?

The chip needs a signal that is either a zero-crossing signal or one that will go above and below 2.5V. The 0.64V-1.93V signal does not fit either so it will not work.

Jean
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Re: Dual VR V2.1

Postby Manu » Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:46 pm

jbelanger wrote:If you want to use the board with a Hall sensor (on either or both of the 2 inputs), you simply ignore the VR- connection (leave it unconnected from the dual VR board) and connect the Hall sensor signal to VR+. You will also need a pull up resistor on the signal if your sensor doesn't have one in it. You can use 5V or 12V for the pull up.


Hello Jean,

I'm confused here, even if I know that your setting work. In Microsquirt_Hardware-3.4 (page 51) James tell to connect signal wire to VR- and ground VR+, which works too. I'm guessing which method is the best here since the two devices use the same IC ?

thx,
Manu
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Re: Dual VR V2.1

Postby jbelanger » Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:58 pm

Manu wrote:
jbelanger wrote:If you want to use the board with a Hall sensor (on either or both of the 2 inputs), you simply ignore the VR- connection (leave it unconnected from the dual VR board) and connect the Hall sensor signal to VR+. You will also need a pull up resistor on the signal if your sensor doesn't have one in it. You can use 5V or 12V for the pull up.


Hello Jean,

I'm confused here, even if I know that your setting work. In Microsquirt_Hardware-3.4 (page 51) James tell to connect signal wire to VR- and ground VR+, which works too. I'm guessing which method is the best here since the two devices use the same IC ?

thx,
Manu

The manual says to leave VR+ unconnected. Never ground the unused input when using a Hall sensor.

And the reason that the manual says to use VR- is because the Microsquirt has the + and - swapped on the external wiring compared to the chip. This is done to keep compatibility with the old Microsquirt. So that is the same as what I say since on my board VR+ is really VR+ on the chip.

By the way, you can use VR+ or VR- and leave the other unconnected. The only difference is that the detection will be the falling edge of the signal instead of the rising edge.

Jean
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Re: Dual VR V2.1

Postby Manu » Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:24 pm

Thanks Jean
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Re: Dual VR V2.1

Postby nicolasronan » Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:28 am

Hi Jean,
It is necessary tu use the dual VR board for microsquirt module v2.2 ?
If yes how wiring?
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Re: Dual VR V2.1

Postby jbelanger » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:51 pm

It is not necessary but depends on the sensors you're using. And unfortunately, if you need to use the dual VR board, the best way to connect it requires modifying the module which is not something easily done by anyone not used or equipped to work with surface mount components.

Jean
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Re: Dual VR V2.1

Postby chois » Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:09 pm

Hi Jean,

I have a micro v2.0 board, running msextra 3.4.2, and TS 3.0.3.
Had a very difficult time getting the nice crisp signal from a Cherry geartooth counter (hall) sensor to be seen in uS.
Finally punted and tossed on a stock VW vr sensor, but would prefer to use the hall.

If I understand what I read here correctly, this board can be used to present the uS with a useable vr style (zero crossing) signal based on a hall input, as long as that hall pulse crosses 2.5v.
Do I have this right?

Also, I'm not really clear on what I would need to do to install this in my setup (either in the case or externally). What connects where, yadda-yadda-yadda, for MicroSquirt V2.0 (and 2.x, 3.x really would probably help the micro folks out in general)...

Thanks,
Chris
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Re: Dual VR V2.1

Postby jbelanger » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:36 pm

chois wrote:If I understand what I read here correctly, this board can be used to present the uS with a useable vr style (zero crossing) signal based on a hall input, as long as that hall pulse crosses 2.5v.
Do I have this right?

Not quite. The output is a 0-5V signal and not a zero-crossing signal. It can use a Hall sensor signal as input but it will output a similar signal so that won't solve your problem.

Unfortunately the V2.0 Microsquirt (and Microsquirt module) does not have a tach input circuit that can properly handle a Hall sensor signal. So you can either change the sensor to one that will work with the VR input (which is also rather picky about the sensor type) or you need to modify the board to use another circuit.

Jean
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Re: Dual VR V2.1

Postby chois » Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:32 pm

Thanks for the clarification.

Where could I learn more about what modifications the board would need?
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