No crank signal help needed

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No crank signal help needed

Postby timh » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:02 pm

Need some help with not getting a crank (or cam) signal with the dual VR V2.1 . Last fall I had the car running with Wasted COP using the MS2 V3.0 VR circuit. Over the winter I decided to add the dual VR board(internal one) to add the cam signal. This spring I also rewired the relay board to move it into the cabin. Everything checked out until I came to crank signal, nothing showed on the composite logger. First, I thought I screwed up the wiring to the MS. Continuity checks to the right pins were okay. Next, was checking the wiring I added to the proto area for the VR board. Pulled the VR board from the 8 pin socket I installed and continuity checks from the db37 pins in to the socket showed I had a small solder bridge between Out2 and GND. I cleaned this up and still nothing.
Thinking I fried something in the VR board then I ordered a new one and installed it last weekend. Still nothing. Next, I put the MS board back the way I had it last fall when it was working(VRIN to TACHSELECT and VROUT to TSEL) – nothing. Hooked up the jimstim and the crank signal was as it should be. I am wondering if I missed some setting in Tunerstudios or someone could point me towards some other tests - although I am a real novice at electronics. Thanks in advance.
timh
 
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Re: No crank signal help needed

Postby jbelanger » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:01 pm

Can you specify exactly where everything is connected? Where did you connect each input and output to/from the dual VR board? And where did you connect the 5V/ground pins? And how are your VR sensors connected to the MS (which pins on the DB-37)?

When you say it's working with the JimStim, do you mean that it works with the dual VR board?

Jean
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Re: No crank signal help needed

Postby timh » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:06 pm

VR1+ comes in on pin 24 of the DB 37 is then jumped from TACHSELECT to VR1+
VR1- comes in on pin 3 of the DB 37 is then jumped from SPR1 to VR1- (pin 3 is connected to the neg on the crank sensor & the shield is connected to sensor grounds on MS - pin 19 I think)
VR2+ comes in on pin 31 of the DB 37 is then jumped from IAC2B to VR2+
VR2- comes in on pin 4 of the DB 37 is then jumped from SPR2 to VR2- (pin 4 is connected to the neg on the cam sensor & the shield is connected to sensor grounds on MS - pin 19 I think)
OUT1 jumps to TSEL
OUT2 jumps to JS10
V+ to 5V at the proto area
GND to Gnd at the proto area

Regarding the jimstim, last winter I test it and the tach signal worked but not the second trigger which I understood would be the case. This was with the VR Board. I also got the same results without the VR Board when I went back to my original settings.
timh
 
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Re: No crank signal help needed

Postby jbelanger » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:20 pm

Those connections are all correct.

You should be able to get the JimStim working with both the crank and the cam signal when using the dual VR board but that needs a wheel mode that does have a second trigger such as the 36-1 wheel mode. The easiest way to make it work with your setup would be to use the square wave crank mode, connect the second trigger to pin 31, use a 5V (or 12V) pull up on both triggers, and leave pins 3 and 4 not connected to anything (that's the default JimStim setup for those 2 pins so leave it like that). That should give you a complete sequential setup.

That would be a very good test to perform to see if your hardware is correct on the MS side and if your configuration is also correct. And if that doesn't work, it would be a good idea to post your msq so that I can have a look to see if there is something obviously wrong.

Jean
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Re: No crank signal help needed

Postby timh » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:28 am

Jean, I did as you suggested and got a perfect signal for the crank & cam using my 60-2 setting with the JimStim. I then tried it in the car and nothing showed up in the composite logger. I also tried the tooth logger and after about 10 seconds of cranking I noticed a slight blip - I got about 12 vertical bars to show up. Would that indicated I have a ground issue? I have also attached my tune.
Attachments
2015-06-10_21.24.21.msq
(110.35 KiB) Downloaded 73 times
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Re: No crank signal help needed

Postby jbelanger » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:49 am

So the test does confirm that the dual VR board works. Your result with the tooth logger would indicate that there might be a wiring issue; a ground issue is not very likely because you should not have a ground connection on your VR sensors.

Make sure that you actually don't have a ground connection on VR+ and VR- and that you have a good connection from the sensor all the way to the dual VR board. The chip on the VR board is very sensitive so it will be able to pick up even a very small signal so any functional sensor will easily be able to generate it. Also make sure that your sensor is close enough to the toothed wheel.

If you can have access to an oscilloscope, that would be ideal because you would be able to probe the sensor signal to make sure you have something coming in and you would also be able to check the output. Even a sound card scope would work for this. This shows you how to make one: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 32&t=38560.

Jean
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Re: No crank signal help needed

Postby timh » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:41 pm

Well, I made the sound card scope and it works great. Wish I had seen that some time ago. After going through everthing with its aid it comes down to this: the 5 volts at the proto area drops to nothing while the engine is cranking. I just figured it out and will begin searching for a cause of this. thanks for all your help!
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Re: No crank signal help needed

Postby jbelanger » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:46 pm

Yeah, even such a basic scope is a great help to find problems. And I'm glad that you're making progress on it. As for your 5V, make sure you do have 12V power to your MS while cranking; you wouldn't be the first to have that issue.

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