What's involved in Dual VR replacing MS on board?

http://jbperf.com/dual_VR/index.html

What's involved in Dual VR replacing MS on board?

Postby arran » Sat May 07, 2016 11:44 pm

Hi,

Apologies if this has been asked previously, no luck with a quick search but it seems like an obvious question.

If I have an MS3 with the MS3X expander each using their respective VR inputs, are there any tricks to implementing the JBPerf dual VR internal circuit to replace the MS onboard circuits?

I want to be able to retain the existing wiring, and just make changes to the inside of the MS case. I should just be able to bypass the standard circuits yes?

I have a sync loss problem that has developed recently under certain circumstances, I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet and am investigating options

Arran
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Re: What's involved in Dual VR replacing MS on board?

Postby jbelanger » Sun May 08, 2016 11:28 am

You can't just make internal changes and keep the same wiring because the MS3 an MS3X circuit use a single signal wire and ground on the other sensor wire while the dual VR board has dedicated VR+ and VR- inputs. You could use ground on the VR- (or VR+) input but that would compromise the efficiency of the board.

You can bypass the VR circuit on the main board (either on the V3.0 or V3.57, you don't mention which one you have) which will correspond to VR1+ but for the 3 other inputs, you will need to use spare connector pins and change your wiring. To use the VR input on the MS3X, that would require removing surface mount components or cutting traces on the board.

Jean
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Re: What's involved in Dual VR replacing MS on board?

Postby arran » Sun May 08, 2016 6:37 pm

Thanks.

Sorry I should have said, I have a v3.0 base board.

I understand the difference in the wiring between your dual vr board and the MS setup. MS has the vr- connected to sensor ground, whereas your circuit needs a separate vr- for each vr channel.

To avoid adding new pins through the db37, cutting tracks inside the case to isolate the vr- db37 pins so they can be connected to the dual vr board is necessary.
arran
 
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Re: What's involved in Dual VR replacing MS on board?

Postby jbelanger » Sun May 08, 2016 8:35 pm

It would be difficult to cut tracks to isolate the VR- DB37 pins because the boards (V3.0 and MS3X) have more than 2 layers and the inner layers are not accessible. I also don't know if the sensor grounds are connected to an inner layer. Also, you would need to either cut tracks or remove components for the VR+ input on the MS3X because you need to bypass the circuit and there is no easy way to do this if you want to use the same DB37 pin. I also don't know if there are inner layer tracks that would make this impractical.

So the most obvious way to go is to use the VR1+ DB37 pin (pin 24), remove the jumpers at TachSelect and Tsel, connect those to VR1+ and OUT1 on the dual VR board and then use 3 spare pins on the DB37 connector for VR1-, VR2+ and VR2-. The easiest thing for OUT2 is to connect it to JS10 and completely ignore the MS3X.

Jean
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Re: What's involved in Dual VR replacing MS on board?

Postby arran » Sat May 14, 2016 12:01 am

If I was to purchase the DualVR, do you have any of the correct D-Sub pins for the male and female DB-37 plugs that could also be purchased?

Edit: It appears that there are no spare pins available on the MS3X, only the MS3 DB-37 has spares, 8 to 14 are not connected which need female pins in the db-37 loom connector. I'd want to bring VR+ and VR- for both wheels in through MS3 8 to 14 somewhere, and leave the shield connected to ground.
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Re: What's involved in Dual VR replacing MS on board?

Postby jbelanger » Sat May 14, 2016 10:47 am

There's a misunderstanding about what the spare pins are. They are not pins that are not wired but rather the ones connected to SPR1-4 (pins 3-6) and, possibly, the 4 IAC pins (pins 25,27,29,31). The pins you mention are ground pins that are not used in your wiring loom. The ones I was talking about simply require adding a jumper wire from the dual VR board to the appropriate location on the board itself (some wiring loom might need to have some or all of those added to the connector too).

It is possible that none of these spare pins are actually "spares" in your setup and could be used for some purpose such as CAN, a stepper IAC, and some addition I/Os. If they are not really used in your setup you can repurpose them for the VR inputs. If they are actually used, you will need to see if you have other spare pins for features you are not using such as the IGN or IDL outputs (pins 36 and 30).

And if you do need D-Sub pins, you will need to contact your MS vendor and either get the pins from them or get which ones to use and buy them yourself. I do not carry them and it would be impossible for me to know which brand and model they use as they can change that at any time. I also do not carry or make looms myself.

If you still don't have the needed spare pins, one more solution would be to add a small 4-pin connector to the case endplate dedicated to the 4 wires for the 2 VR sensors.

Jean
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Re: What's involved in Dual VR replacing MS on board?

Postby arran » Sat May 14, 2016 5:57 pm

Thanks Jean, I am already using everything except SPR1 and SPR2 which I want to keep as these are for CANH and CANL.

I'm doing two knock sensors (SPR3 and 4) and two EGT probes to an internal circuit (4 x IAC). This is why I originally asked if I could use the existing connector wiring, because the alternative is difficult.

I'll talk to DIYAutotune about the pins
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Re: What's involved in Dual VR replacing MS on board?

Postby arran » Wed May 18, 2016 10:21 am

Hi, I used the "Contact" form on this site a few days ago, not sure if I made a typo on the return address or something...

Just looking to find out what the postage options and costs for the DualVR board to Brisbane Australia might be,

Thanks,
Arran
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Re: What's involved in Dual VR replacing MS on board?

Postby jbelanger » Wed May 18, 2016 3:55 pm

Email sent. Sorry for the delay.

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