12 cylinder sequential injection

http://jbperf.com/quad_ign_inj/index.html

12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby Tinkers Toy » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:23 pm

I'm in the planning / purchasing mode to install a megasquirt 3 V3.0 with MS3X expansion card to do 12 cylinder sequential port injection and possibly coil over plug or a version of wasted spark ignition in the near future. Initially I will do the fuel only. I plan on using your 4-channel driver kit to expand the MS3X but I'm slightly confused and I'm a total newbe. Does the 4 channel driver mean I can control 2 more injection and 2 more spark circuits? Does that then expand my setup to 10 cylinders with one 4-channel driver and do I need a second 4 channel driver for cylinders 11 & 12?
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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby jbelanger » Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:19 pm

The 4-channel driver board has 4 ignition channels and 4 injector channels. So you only need to use one board to have sequential injection and COPs on a 12 cylinder engine when used with the MS3/MS3X setup.

Also, I assume you're talking about the new version of the board which is described here: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 20#p313034.

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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby Tinkers Toy » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:23 pm

Excellent. I will be purchasing the 4-channel driver board this week. I will be using your complete kit, am I correct in assuming I will be buying the new version of the board or is there a version number I need to request??
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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby jbelanger » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:49 pm

I don't have a page up yet for the new version or a 'Buy' button. And this new version (V2.0) will only come as an assembled version. I've yet to set the pricing because I just need to check a few things before. Just contact me when you're ready.

Jean
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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby Tinkers Toy » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:57 pm

I purchased the unassembled version of the 4 channel driver V1.0A. I see the differences between V1.0A board and v 2.0. How do I move forward? Can I return this kit for the new version? I have not started assembly yet.
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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby jbelanger » Tue May 01, 2012 1:11 pm

So you did not read my message saying that you needed to contact me if you wanted the V2.0 because I did not have a way to buy on the site yet?

If you want to return the V1.0 kit and it is in its original condition, you can use the return address on the envelop but you will have to pay for return shipping and I will not refund the original shipping cost. In addition, I will have to wait until I have the kit in hand and I will have to subtract the Paypal fees. I also reserve the right to subtract more from the return depending on the shape of the kit when I receive it.

Jean
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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby dontz125 » Wed May 02, 2012 1:15 am

TT: If you decide to keep the V1.0 board, you can adapt it to logic COP use by replacing the IGBTs with 1N4148 diodes. These diodes would be installed from Base (hole with the dot) to Emitter (hole near the "Q1" label), band to the Emitter - as seen on the pic of the board:

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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby RUFAZZ » Wed May 02, 2012 2:11 pm

PM Sent

I am also interested in the outcome of this project
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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby Tinkers Toy » Wed May 02, 2012 9:19 pm

No I did not wait to see the second post, I jumped right in and ordered it. I'm hopeful for a refund for the kit less Pay Pal costs and I fully expect to cover the shipping costs.
I will return the item in pristine condition as it was shipped to me.
I will wait for your instructions on how to purchase V2.0
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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby jbelanger » Sun May 06, 2012 3:39 pm

PM sent.

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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby kjones6039 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:53 am

Jean,

My apologies for reviving this old thread. I was going to start a new thread when I found this one.

I want to drive some newly acquired ls2 coils with my spare 4 channel (v.1.0) board, as described in Don's post above. If I understand correctly, I would remove the IGBT's and install the diodes between pins 1 & 3 (emitter to gate), to get a logic level signal out? Do I need any additional components?

I don't have any 1N4148's at the moment but I do have some 1N914's. Would they be sufficient for this project?

Thanks for your time as always!!

Ken
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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby jbelanger » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:45 am

Using a 1N914 is the same as using a 1N4148 since they're pretty much the same thing. However, connecting this between the gate and emitter will only ground the output; you would need it between the gate and collector. Look at the bottom of the board and you will see that the middle pad is the one connected to the DB15.

Having said that, I'm not sure if that will work. I assume it will with LS2 coils but the question mark is that the forward voltage of the diode means the coil will see less than 5V; it should see about 4V. Also you will want to replace the 1k resistors provided with the kit with 330R resistors.

Ideally you'd want to use small PNP transistors but the would mean you would have to leave off one leg off the board and connect it to 5V from the MS board. So that's far from ideal. Don's solution is simpler but that means the CPU is directly driving the coils but it is protected by the diode. But the diode has a larger voltage drop than a small PNP transistor.

Jean
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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby kjones6039 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:15 am

pm sent
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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby Tinkers Toy » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:35 pm

Tinkers Toy wrote:I'm in the planning / purchasing mode to install a megasquirt 3 V3.0 with MS3X expansion card to do 12 cylinder sequential port injection and possibly coil over plug or a version of wasted spark ignition in the near future. Initially I will do the fuel only. I plan on using your 4-channel driver kit to expand the MS3X but I'm slightly confused and I'm a total newbe. Does the 4 channel driver mean I can control 2 more injection and 2 more spark circuits? Does that then expand my setup to 10 cylinders with one 4-channel driver and do I need a second 4 channel driver for cylinders 11 & 12?

Well after some family issues I'm back at it. I am doing fuel only at this time. I have my Megasquirt assembled as per the instructions and the car runs but only on 8 cylinders. The 4 dead injectors are the ones triggered by the 4-Channel Driver. I think I have it wired correctly and the settings in Megasquirt appear to be correct. where can I start testing?
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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby jbelanger » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:41 pm

You would need to check if there is a signal at the inputs of the board. The easiest way to do this is with an oscilloscope. If you don't have one, you will either need a multimeter with a frequency meter or you may be able to use a LED (with an inline resistor) between the board input and ground; at low RPM you should see the LED flash.

And you say you think it is correctly wired. How exactly is every input and output on the board wired?

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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby Tinkers Toy » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:45 pm

I checked 5V and ground at the 4-channel board and things appear ok. I have connected H1 to inj3, H2 to inj4, H3 to inj1, H4 to inj2. I tested the injectors by simply turning over the engine without spark and checked for wet plugs. the 8 injectors connected to MS3X are all wet. the 4 connected to the driver board are all dry. i'm going to double the ground wire from the 9 pin connect/or to ground just to verify I have it grounded. after that I'm stuck. I do not have an oscilloscope so I need to do the diode thing, any idea what diode and resister to use? make that an led and resistor.
Last edited by Tinkers Toy on Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby jbelanger » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:49 pm

You can use any generic LED you can find and use a 300 to 1K Ohm resistor. Where is the ground wire on the DB9 connected to? That needs to go to a car ground (preferably on the engine).

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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby Tinkers Toy » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:55 pm

jbelanger wrote:You can use any generic LED you can find and use a 300 to 1K Ohm resistor. Where is the ground wire on the DB9 connected to? That needs to go to a car ground (preferably on the engine).

Jean

all the grounds go to the engine block, all the sensors ground at the ECU. all grounds are soldered and bolted to the block with a soldered lug. I'm very particular about wiring and all joints are soldered with heat shrink covering. maybe I just missed the 9 pin ground but I doubt it. I'm going to check right now.
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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby Tinkers Toy » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:22 pm

traced ground back to the block and it appears good. I took apart the plug and let me describe the ground pin. looking at the backside of the plug with the pins facing me I have it oriented with the 5 pins on the top and I assume the top 5 pins from left to right are 1 2 3 4 5 then the bottom row. looking at the pin side of the plug I have the ground wire attached to the top right pin, correct?
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Re: 12 cylinder sequential injection

Postby jbelanger » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:33 pm

That sounds correct. Pin 5 is indeed ground and that's the one that is towards the middle of the board; pin 1 is the one closest to the side of the board.

And I may have told you something wrong before in that pin 1 on the DB9 is for injector 4 (as indicated on the input side of the board), pin 2 is for injector 3, pin 3 is for injector 2 and pin 4 is for injector 4. That won't affect whether or not the injectors will fire but that will affect the sequence.

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