Another logic level question

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Another logic level question

Postby kjones6039 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:59 am

Jean,

I searched for an answer but could not seem to find what I was looking for. My apologies if I missed it somewhere!

I am currently running 2 Ford EDIS coils using your v1.0 board. I am driving your board in the standard fashion ie. Spark A=D14, B=D16, C=D15 and D=JS11

My settings for this setup, in TS, are:

Ignition Input Capture - Rising Edge
Spark Output - Going High

I am in the process of installing a set of LS1 coils running in wasted spark configuration using your v2.0 board.

Now for my questions....

Is my assumption correct that I can drive the v2.0 board with the same outputs that I have been driving the v1.0 board without any other modification?
Assuming that the above is correct, will I need to change either Input Capture or Spark Output (or both)?

Thanks as always!

Ken

EDIT: Oops... One more question.... Can I just pick up the 5 volts for the 2.0 board from the MS2 v3.0 VRef supply?
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Re: Another logic level question

Postby jbelanger » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:10 am

Ken,

The input capture edge has nothing to do with how you drive the coils so don't touch it. The output should not need changing either because while the output will go to 5V when it was previously going to ground, that's what you need to have. But whenever you do a change in the way the ignition is driven, you should always check that the polarity is correct. In this case it's quite easy because you don't need anything connected to the output and you can simply measure the voltage at the output: you should have 0V with no RPM and you should have a fraction of 5V corresponding to the duty cycle (use the test mode).

And I'm not sure using Vref is a good idea. The on/off nature of the ignition signals could introduce noise on the sensors connected to Vref. However, since the current needed to drive the LS1 coils should be low that may not be an issue. You would have to make some tests to make sure one way or the other.

Jean
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Re: Another logic level question

Postby kjones6039 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:24 pm

That's what I get for posting dumb a$$ questions when I should be in bed!! :lol:

Got it!!

Thanks Jean... :D
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Re: Another logic level question

Postby kjones6039 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:56 am

Jean,

After a ~7 month hiatus I am back to this project.

MS2 v3.0
8-D514 LS2 logic level coils, driven with your v2.0 driver board, in wasted spark fashion
TS v2.5.07 Beta

I have the setup running on the bench and everything is working as advertized.

My question is regarding Spark Output: Going High/Going Low

The TS Tool Tip says:
This setting is CRITICAL or you will melt your ignition coils.
For Microsquirt this is typically 'Going High'
For direct coil control on MS2 this is typically 'Going High'
For logic spark output on MS2 this is typically 'Going Low'

Can I assume the above holds true using your board?

Just for the heck of it, I included a couple poor quality pics of the signal in both modes.

Thanks for the help as always!

Ken

Going High.jpg
Going High.jpg (49.7 KiB) Viewed 4607 times


Going Low.jpg
Going Low.jpg (52.09 KiB) Viewed 4607 times
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Re: Another logic level question

Postby jbelanger » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:47 am

That tip depends on the hardware you're using to drive the coils and I think it assumes you're using the hardware shown in the manual. That circuit inverse the output which is not the case with my board so you would use going high.

The problem with the signal you show is that it is difficult to say which part is the dwell. If it is the shorter part, as it should, that would confirm that you want to use the going high. The LS coils charge when the input signal is 5V so you want the signal on only for the dwell duration. One way to make sure is that if the signal is 5V when the engine is not running then that's the wrong polarity.

Jean
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Re: Another logic level question

Postby kjones6039 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:22 am

If it is the shorter part

Yes the shorter part is the dwell (4ms in this case).

I am driving your board directly with the 3 LED outputs plus JS11 in exactly the same fashion as with your v1.0 board running the Ford EDIS coils. The new board seems to be working fine. I can personally attest to the spark voltage! :shock: Damn that hurt! :lol:

Looks like Going High is what I need. Thanks again!

Ken
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Re: Another logic level question

Postby jbelanger » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:43 am

Is it bad that I actually laughed out loud at the spark incident? So how many volts did that feel like?

By the way, I mentioned the trick about checking what you see with the key on engine off because no matter what setup you use, if the coil is turned on you have the wrong polarity. That is true for logic level coils and high current coils. You can replace a logic level coil by a LED and a high current coil by a 12V bulb and if you turn on the ignition switch and the light turns on, you need to change the polarity (if it doesn't turn on, you may still want to change it to make sure it does turn on with the other polarity; a setup that never turns on is obviously faulty).

Jean
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Re: Another logic level question

Postby kjones6039 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:34 pm

Although I freely admit that my method would not be considered particularly scientific, I did estimate the output voltage of that particular coil to be somewhere in the area of 14-16 kV!! Perhaps I should try that again and report back with the exact voltage? :lol:

I can't seem to locate the precise translation to Canadian, but I think I said, ")&*% ^%@ )(^%^!!!!, when the test was complete!

You can replace a logic level coil by a LED and a high current coil by a 12V bulb and if you turn on the ignition switch and the light turns on, you need to change the polarity

Yep! Sure enough, I switched to going low and the led's come on.

Thank you Jean! You are a gentleman and a scholar!

Ken
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Re: Another logic level question

Postby kjones6039 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:44 pm

Just a quick post to close this thread.

The v2.0 installation works flawlessly on the bench! It is driving eight D514A (LS7) coils in wasted spark. As you can see, I removed the DB9 connector from the driver board, combined it with a proto board and routed the driver outputs to a DB15 adapter card. The small board with the blue pot is an adjustable (set to +5v) supply that powers the v2.0 driver and the TinyIOX board. The two IC's are 1k ohm resistor and Darlington transistor arrays that are driven by the Tiny output ports, which are also routed to the DB15.

The bad news for Jean is.......... I have lots of room left on the proto board for some more of my cockamamie schemes! :shock:

Thanks for all the help and another one of your excellent products, Jean! :D

Ken

I-O Project.JPG
I-O Project.JPG (111.87 KiB) Viewed 4578 times
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Re: Another logic level question

Postby jbelanger » Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:59 pm

Nice setup! And you do have room for quite a few things in there. Are you going to add an SLC-OEM or two?

Also, I know it's a bit late to mention it but if you ever order another V2.0 4-channel driver board let me know if you don't want the connector installed. That would certainly make it easier to install.

I look forward to see what the next step is. It's always nice to see what people do with the different products.

Jean
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Re: Another logic level question

Postby kjones6039 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:36 pm

Thanks, Jean!

For the time being, I'm going to pass on the SLC-OEM (I do have the evk though). Alan's Spartan sensor is working so well for me that I don't feel the need to change anytime soon. I do have some TinyIOx projects that I want to pursue, but I will start a new thread for those.

See ya soon! :lol:

Ken
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