Couple install & setup questions

http://jbperf.com/quad_ign_inj/index.html

Couple install & setup questions

Postby turbo bob » Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:38 am

Hey guys,

For starters I wanted to ask what you guys typically use for cutting up the MS end plate for mounting the DB15 because I want to try to do it the cleanest way possible and I just moved recently and don't have access to a lot of tools anymore and will need to go out and buy things. I was planning on just marking with a template and starting by drilling it out then finishing it with a dremel or die grinder but I don't see it turning out too nicely and wanted to hear some other suggestions.

Also, does the driver board absolutely need to be mounted in the 3rd card slot furthest away from the MS main board? Reason I ask is because the lowest card slot closest to the MS mainboard would line the DB15 up with the 3 led holes and I was thinking about using that slot to make it easy by using the led holes to start opening up the endplate, Actually I guess maybe that won't work because it looks like the board would hit the DB9 but the middle or top slot would work?

Other than that, did I read in one of the threads on there that all the components on the heatsink of the 3.0 board can be removed and arent needed now? Except for just u5? Or are there other components that would need to remain? Only reason I'm asking is so I have more heatsink space for boost & idle control, I know Q16 isnt needed since that is for spark output and I'm also assuming Q3,9, 11, 12, R37 & R38 can be removed but wasnt sure about Q1 & Q5

I know I had other questions but they are slipping my mind at the moment so I'm sure I'll be back soon :)
Thanks,
Bob
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Re: Couple install & setup questions

Postby Rod S » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:21 am

I drilled 4 holes in the "corner" loations, using a diameter such that the pairs of holes at each end touched so could easily be linked just by filing, then a chain of fairly small holes along the top and bottom edges, again linking it all up by filing. Crude but effective. The only thing to be carefull with drilling/filing is the strip of aluminium left along the top of the endplate is very narrow (hence using a small drill for the chain of holes) so I clamped the very top edge upsidedown in a vice while filing so it didn't distort or tear.
I do have a milling machine which would have been even neater but concluded it would take longer to setup than drilling/filing.
Where I used to work we had a small bench press with dies for all the common shaped holes like DB connectors (worked like a Q-Max punch but hydraulic) so if there are any small electronic fabrication companies around where you live and you want a real neat job I'm sure they would have the same equipment but, honestly, drills and file were fine.

Top slot in my case because I wanted to keep the LEDs (useful for testing/setting up).
Also puts the ignitors at the ideal height to bolt to the lid and, as you say, any lower it would most likely foul the serial connector.

The mainboard can be built with nothing apart from the 5V regulator on the heatsink once you use Jean's 4 channel board (he lists all the parts to omit on his main website but it's pretty obvious if you just refer to the mainboard schematics) and if you use his dual VR as well there is next to nothing on the mainboard.
See attached photo.

One thing I would recommend is to use small plug/sockets for the wiring to the 4 channel board, it makes assembly/maintenance so much easier. So long as you use very low profile right angled ones they will clear the case and 5V regulator.

Image

EDIT - missed a bit.
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Re: Couple install & setup questions

Postby turbo bob » Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:29 pm

Thanks Rod that was I really big help I really appreciate that!!!
So as for why you decided to retain the LEDs, I'm assuming your running wasted spark because of the 2 ignition outputs and 2 of your LEDs your using so you can see spark for your 2 ignition banks? Are you using D15 and D16 for ignition? Maybe its just hard to tell from the picture but I thought for some reason D14 or JS10 always had to be used as Spark A unless I'm just not seeing something right, just curious on how you set everything up :)

Do you mind if I ask where you got your plug sockets from, the 4 socket one your using for injection and the 2 socket one your using for ignition?
I ended up buying these a while back because I needed more jumpers for my Jimstim and was going to ask Jean if these would be sufficient for the processor signal to all of the drivers or if the gauge of these would be too small? http://amzn.com/B00AYCON8Y
They are pretty much the same size as the Jimstim jumpers which I know is perfectly fine for running LEDs just not sure if they would be ok for the injector and ignition signals from the processor to the driver board.
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Re: Couple install & setup questions

Postby jbelanger » Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:45 pm

The gauge for those wires is fine; the LEDs actually draw more current than the ignition signal. The only thing to watch out is that the connectors are usually very cheap ones and they may be somewhat loose fitting. That would create problems. The ones Rod used will be more solid simply due to the fact that all the pins are in a single block.

Jean
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Re: Couple install & setup questions

Postby turbo bob » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:30 pm

Thanks Jean, thats what I was concerned about. I ended up ordering a bunch of different style headers so if the right angled ones I ordered end up fitting fine, I'll just keep moving forward for now with the install and just using the jumpers for initial setup and testing and wait to hear maybe where Rod got his sockets from because I'd rather use something a lot more secure.

I know this is not the place, and you don't have to respond to this here, but I'm having a hard time understanding bringing in 2 trigger inputs and the setup required for MS2.
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 01&t=56848
What is the main purpose of your dual VR board, do you need something like that because if both crank & cam signals are VR you cant use both the VRin and Opto-in together for both inputs? I can understand and follow how to setup the mainboard for the primary tach input for a VR sensor, but what I'm having trouble with is finding/understanding how to bring in the secondary cam input... Like for example, since I'm now not going to be using the IGN output on the DB37, I can just use that pin for cam input right? I know I need to first figure out what type of sensor my cam sensor is, but if my VR circuit is already being used by the crank, can the cam input come in and go thru the pin 36 for IGN and use the Opto-in circuit since VR is already used?

Sorry for all the terrible questions, ignition inputs are definitely a weak area for me :(
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Re: Couple install & setup questions

Postby Rod S » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:59 am

Wasted spark using D14 and D16 (which appears to be the prefered configuration), the photo is poor, the grey wire actually folds under itself once the case is open hence making it look like D15 but it's not.
JS10 is in use anyway for the secondary tach. It's a fully sequential setup - you can just about see the modification to the daughterboard.

Re the connectors, because I'm in the UK I tend to use Farnell (I think they trade as Newark the other side of the pond) but I'm sure Digikey or Mouser have similar but anyway the links are to the Farnell part numbers
http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity-a ... st=3418479 (just cut off as many as you need, I use these on lots of projects hence buying the 50 long one)
http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/2226a-0 ... st=1593506
http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/2226a-0 ... st=1593509 (5 way, not 4 as the inj channels have a signal ground)
http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/2226tg/ ... st=1593529

Beware that the crimp terminals (assuming you don't have the expensive crimp tool (I don't)) are fiddly to solder as the solder tends to run (capillary action) down into the female bit and preventing them slide over the header properly. I cut a matchstick down to the same size as the header pins and put that in while soldering.
However, if you don't fancy soldering these are exactly the same series connectors as any old AT/ATX PC case where the HDD LED, speaker leads etc. plug into the motherboard so you can raid a local recycle place and cut those leads out. The biggest is usually 4, not 5 but you can cut the connector blocks open with a stanley knife and get yourself a load of wires with the terminals nicely crimped on the ends and insert them in a new connector block.

EDIT - I just looked at your Amazon link, I have a load of those and I'm 99% certain the internal bit is the same female terminal that I mentioned above so you could most likely cut them open just like a PC connector and just re-insert them in a multiway block (providing the wires are long enough).
As Jean says, using the multiway blocks makes everything much more secure and less likely to pull off.
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Re: Couple install & setup questions

Postby turbo bob » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:38 am

Finally getting around to assembling the board and starting to installing all the jumpers and had some questions about the resistors used for the board.

1) from Jean's assembly part of the page "(R1 to R8 are 330 Ohm or 1k Ohm resistors depending on the components used in the kit and R9 to R12 are 100K resistors)"
Obviously R9-R12 there is no question about what to use, but for R1-R8 how do I know whether I need to use 330 or 1k? Is that something I need to refer to the MS manuals to figure out?

2) In the Logic-level drivers assembly section it says to skip installation for "R1 to R8 resistors", which for R1-R4 that makes sense, but from looking at the board R5-R8 look like they are for the injector driver circuits so I'm not understanding why these resistors would need to be omitted?

3) I might have over read it but I think I'm missing or not able to find what size resisters are to be used for R13-R16

Sorry for all the dumb questions please bear with me :)
bob
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Re: Couple install & setup questions

Postby jbelanger » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:03 am

Bob,

1) The kit should have the correct resistor values included for R1 to R8. In any case, the components I've used for quite a while now have used 1k resistors. If you're not using a complete kit then you'll need to specify which driver components you're using.

2) That is indeed a mistake. Omit R1 to R4 and use 1k resistor for R5 to R8 (if using the complete kit).

3) R13 to R16 are 10 Ohm resistor in my kit but you can also use 15 Ohm. Again, these are included in the complete kit.

Jean
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Re: Couple install & setup questions

Postby turbo bob » Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:06 am

Thanks Jean!!!

I'm pretty sure I did buy the full kit because it did come with a pack of resistors so I should be good to go, thanks for clarifying its greatly appreciated :)
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Re: Couple install & setup questions

Postby turbo bob » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:05 pm

Rod,

The 2 six and 5 way plastic terminal blocks finally came in and I'm really glad you guys suggested those :) should work out really nice!!!
Is there somewhere that I can actually buy the metal terminals that crimp onto the wire that fit inside these blocks? I wasn't sure what these metal terminals are called to search for some that I can order...

One question as I was looking at your setup some, for the header pin panel you used for the 4 injector & ground pad, what made you decide to put the header on the "case" side of Jean's board opposed to the side that would be facing down towards the MS board? Not sure if its a fitment issue or not but was wondering what you noticed when you put yours together and if there was something that made you decide on the way you did it.
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Re: Couple install & setup questions

Postby jbelanger » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:13 pm

Rod's fourth link is for the terminals. And putting the header on that side of the board is the only way to clear the boot loader jumper on the MS2 card.

Jean
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Re: Couple install & setup questions

Postby turbo bob » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:41 am

success!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB4w7YWU0iU

So question about testing the logic coil outputs....in the video you can see the block of 4 stead lit LEDs, those are the connections for Spark A-D and if I stare at the close, even at low rpm they look like they flicker ever so slightly, but is it normal for the coil outputs to be powered like this or do I have something possibly powered wrong? Obviously you can see the 4 injector outputs cycling, I figured the 4 coil outputs would look similar but this is my first time testing this type of setup so I have no idea lol
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Re: Couple install & setup questions

Postby jbelanger » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:53 am

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